Crashing of browser at specific situation

John Boyd's Avatar

John Boyd

24 Sep, 2015 06:05 PM

This has occurred often enough to post this question? discussion?

Say in email, I choose to "Compose" then select an address from my list, then enter a subject line.
Now I click in the area to enter my text and the browser crashes.
Relaunches to place me where I was, okay, and now a click in the text area works just as it should.

Another example helps to illustrate:
Say I take the trouble to agree to fill in a survey, say from Aflac or from CVS (both are real examples of this crash).
I've made progress through their multiple choices to the point where I'm asked to type in an appreciation (or disapproval) in a window and crash goes the browser with the first click.
Again, it relaunches and restores to the point where we were and a click in the text window activates it and accepts typing.

Odd, eh?

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 24 Sep, 2015 06:18 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    I'm sorry to hear that, but please provide the specific URLs that are crashing rather than just a description -- I can't reproduce this with the information you've provided. In addition, please note the browser version you are using, your computer and your operating system.

  2. 2 Posted by John Boyd on 25 Sep, 2015 11:40 AM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Morning Cameron . . .

    Oddly enough, I can report a new instance of the issue:
    with your email to me open, I clicked "reply". That will be the first URL
    below:

    http://laughingmattersink.com/squirrelmail/src/webmail.php

    http://laughingmattersink.com/squirrelmail/src/compose.php?passed_id=9583&mailbox=INBOX&startMessage=1&passed_ent_id=0&smaction=reply

    Then with the reply window open (second URL above), we had the crash.

    A dialogue comes up immediately with options to "Close", "Try again" and
    "Report" (Sorry I could have made a screen shot of that to show to you.)

    Of course I have always clicked "Try again" and the TenFourFox is
    relaunched with a dialogue listing the two windows that were open and a
    link to re-open or to quit.

    Running TenFourFox v, 38.3.0 on a MAC PowerPC G4 using OS 10.4.11, and
    blessings to you and those who work with you for saving all of us who
    could never afford to buy all the programs to replace Photoshop,
    Illustrator, Quark, and on and on just because of Apple's new chips!!!

    SO it is an odd quirk that I am reporting and reliably repeatable, as well.

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  3. 3 Posted by John Boyd on 25 Sep, 2015 11:59 AM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Cameron it occurs to me to point out that the webmail program was not the
    culprit, since the same results exactly occurred twice when working
    through surveys.

    After filling in multiple choice buttons for a "progress" of about 80%,
    there came requests for a positive or negative statement to be typed into
    an open, blank field, and with the first click to enter text the crash
    happened.

    Also the subsequent restore of tabs and windows. Brought me back to the
    same place in the surveys, and now the click in the text field activates a
    cursor ready to accept typing.
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

    Morning Cameron . . .

    Oddly enough, I can report a new instance of the issue:
    with your email to me open, I clicked "reply". That will be the first URL
    below:

    http://laughingmattersink.com/squirrelmail/src/webmail.php

    http://laughingmattersink.com/squirrelmail/src/compose.php?passed_id=9583&mailbox=INBOX&startMessage=1&passed_ent_id=0&smaction=reply

    Then with the reply window open (second URL above), we had the crash.

    A dialogue comes up immediately with options to "Close", "Try again" and
    "Report" (Sorry I could have made a screen shot of that to show to you.)

    Of course I have always clicked "Try again" and the TenFourFox is
    relaunched with a dialogue listing the two windows that were open and a
    link to re-open or to quit.

    Running TenFourFox v, 38.3.0 on a MAC PowerPC G4 using OS 10.4.11, and
    blessings to you and those who work with you for saving all of us who
    could never afford to buy all the programs to replace Photoshop,
    Illustrator, Quark, and on and on just because of Apple's new chips!!!

    SO it is an odd quirk that I am reporting and reliably repeatable, as well.

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  4. Support Staff 4 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 25 Sep, 2015 03:24 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    That URL requires a login (please don't give me login credentials -- that's always dangerous). Do you have another one to try?

  5. 5 Posted by John Boyd on 25 Sep, 2015 04:46 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Spent some time just now searching for surveys that might have this
    feature of a window where one is supposed to click to type information.

    No luck yet.

    You'll perhaps get a chuckle out of:
    I clicked "Reply" in the inbox window showing this most recent email of
    yours. Then clicked in the area to write back to you. And, Voilà, crash.

    This time I did make a screen shot of the ensuing dialogue. Attached.

    As usual, after the relaunch, there is no problem. Clicking to enter text
    goes just as it should.

    Just thought I could try it out on my wife's computer where I can access
    the webmail just as I do on this one.
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  6. Support Staff 6 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 26 Sep, 2015 02:42 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    Although I appreciate the attempt, the screenshot is of the generic OS X crash dialogue, which unfortunately only tells me it crashed. It would help me much more if I could reproduce it on one of the testing systems with a publicly accessible URL.

  7. 7 Posted by jan mandl on 26 Sep, 2015 06:31 AM

    jan mandl's Avatar

    after opening this link (from facebook) ten4fox crashes
    link
    http://vinacc.blogspot.co.at/2015/09/article-challenge-to-reach-identity-of.html

    configuration browser and system in crash.rtf

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by Chris (chtrusch... on 26 Sep, 2015 10:05 AM

    Chris (chtrusch)'s Avatar

    I can reproduce this crash on 10.5. Page loads normally, but browser crashes as soon as I start scrolling down. Does not crash with Ion disabled.

  9. 9 Posted by John Boyd on 26 Sep, 2015 06:28 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Thank you, Jan and also Chris . . .

    Yes, and I also crash at that site, but it seems different in that it
    crashes on loading without my clicking anywhere. This would seem to
    indicate a fault of the site and just perhaps be misleading. Wasn't there
    a message about "cookies" that seemed a bit odd?

    When I decided to "Reply" to your email today, I tried another idea:
    Instead of just clicking in the window where I want to type my response, I
    navigated with the Tab key down through all the stops intervening between
    your return address "To:" line down to the buttons just above the return
    typing window (In this email program they are "Signature, Addresses, Save
    Draft, and Send).

    SO that next press of the Tab key should have made active the return
    message window . . . and crash!

    As in all other cases, the "Relaunch" button on the ensuing dialogue put
    everything back to right where it was, including the 2nd window that was
    still holding the "vinacc" site you sent me to.

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  10. 10 Posted by John Boyd on 27 Sep, 2015 02:34 AM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Well, here I am replying without a crash but from my wife's iMac G4.
    Somehow the crash is repeated reliably, but only from my Mac Power PC.
    Both Macs running TenFourFox v.38.3.0 and OS 10.4.11

    Unless someone else turns up with a similar crash.
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  11. Support Staff 11 Posted by Chris (chtrusch... on 27 Sep, 2015 09:45 AM

    Chris (chtrusch)'s Avatar

    These are two different problems. Jan's crash (which I can reproduce) has a chance to be fixed. John's crash is almost impossible to fix, sadly, if we can't reproduce it with a public URL.

  12. Support Staff 12 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 27 Sep, 2015 04:25 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    I'm not even sure they're the same underlyingly. I was able to get Jan's crash to reproduce on the iBook, but only intermittently, so this suggests something related to garbage collection. I need to load it into a debugging instance to figure out for sure what's going on.

  13. 13 Posted by John Boyd on 28 Sep, 2015 02:28 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Morning Cameron . . .

    Well, I had it again this AM, but not with a "Reply". It was an original
    "Compose" where I entered the destination address and the subject line,
    then clicked in the text window and crash.

    Not exactly a crash as before, but the spinning ball came up and after a
    good while that was crash enough for me. I did a force quit and then
    relaunched the browser. It did its usual thing of restoring the email main
    window AND the email compose window complete with entries that I had made,
    only now I click in the text portion and it becomes active and ready to
    go.

    Wrote a longish email and send without further difficulty.

    Wish we could blame it on the email program, but it was the same in two
    separate cases of text entry windows which were parts of surveys (CVS and
    AFLAC) that were 80% completed.

    The relaunch puts the browser back to exactly where it was including the
    survey at 80% and the separate text entry window in foreground.

    I could ask CVS to send me another survey, but then I would have to give
    you a login. Is there any way that I can give you my login to the email
    program in some private way. Can you call me?
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  14. Support Staff 14 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 28 Sep, 2015 05:56 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    I realize you want to solve this problem, but I don't want access to your E-mail server, period -- that means that I also become partially liable for its security (as well as your account's security). Please find me another site that behaves in a similar manner and I will try to look at it.

  15. Support Staff 15 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 29 Sep, 2015 04:09 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    For Jan/chris: The vinacc URL is indeed another manifestation of issue 308, which is known and the highest priority for repair.

  16. Support Staff 16 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 29 Sep, 2015 04:42 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    I have a possible workaround (John, you can try this also, if you like). In about:config, find javascript.options.native_regexp, change it to false and restart the browser. This will make it slower, but I am unable to make it crash. Do you see the same?

  17. Support Staff 17 Posted by Chris (chtrusch... on 29 Sep, 2015 01:02 PM

    Chris (chtrusch)'s Avatar

    I can confirm the workaround. The vinacc URL doesn't crash if native regexp. is disabled.

  18. 18 Posted by John Boyd on 11 Oct, 2015 06:53 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Halloo Cameron . . .

    Seems my enthusiasm was premature. When there is a crash of the browser it
    is with upon a click in the Reply window where I would be adding text.

    I can depend on the dialogue window after the crash where I can report or
    relaunch. The relaunch brings me back to exactly where I was with the two
    open windows (one for the webmail and one for the compose) only now when I
    click in the text area, it becomes active and ready to receive
    keyboarding.

    When I have changed that javascript to false as you show, I have also done
    a quit and restart of the browser program, just as occurred in the crash.

    Seems to lead to an incorrect judgement of success. I'll give it more time
    and we'll see.
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

    Cameron . . .

    You'd need to know about my day job driving a van to help seniors and
    folks with disabilities to understand how it could be so much later that I
    can try your work around.

    But try it this AM I did, and it worked perfectly. I was able to click in
    the reply section of emails to Aflac and to yourself. No crash. Smooth
    sailing. Thank you very much for being there!!

    Don't yet see the slowing down effect. Have you discovered any other
    results of this change to false?

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  19. Support Staff 19 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 31 Oct, 2015 12:56 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    The regexp crash is fixed in 38.4.0, which is available for testing. John, you are welcome to try it and see if it fixes your issue, though it may not. If it doesn't, I'll keep this ticket open. You can download it from the development blog: http://tenfourfox.tenderapp.com/

  20. 20 Posted by John Boyd on 04 Nov, 2015 11:57 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Halloo Cameron . . .

    Apologies again for taking so long to reply.

    I have updated to 38.4 now.

    Again crashing as I click in the reply text area for this email. As
    always, reopens with an "Embarrassing" message and a restore of windows.

    I found it happens also when I was at the forum for my hosting service and
    clicked into a post text field. Same results: crash and relaunch.

    I have placed the revision you suggested (about:config, find
    javascript.options.native_regexp, change it to false and restart the
    browser) and now I wonder should it go back to "true" or is it best as is.

    It seems strange that I would be the only user with this issue. Or are
    there more reports for you to solve?

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  21. Support Staff 21 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 05 Nov, 2015 02:03 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    You should set it back to "true." Leaving it on "false" will hurt the browser's performance and it's not necessary now.

    I have a font-related crash I am investigating, but only on 10.5. It would not cause a 10.4 system to crash (in fact, I'm using my Tiger systems to debug it). It's doubtful this is your issue.

    You mentioned your wife's iMac G4 doesn't crash doing the same things your own Power Mac does. Are you sure you're not having a hardware problem? Is there a haxie or system extension you have installed that she doesn't?

  22. 22 Posted by John Boyd on 11 Nov, 2015 09:47 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Halloo Cameron . . .

    Yes, then I will reset the java script options back as you suggest. And I
    have no haxies or other add ons or extensions that I have (knowingly)
    installed.

    I need to ask another question about the "dnsResponder". I see this in the
    Norton Firewall connections dialogue, and I was prompted to look because I
    found that I often could not put the computer to "sleep". It would spin
    down and then immediately turn on again.

    I'm not sure now why, but I thought the dnsResponder was responsible.

    I found the following code to turn it off and/or on:

    you can disable mdnsresponder via the terminal by typing:

    sudo launchctl unload -w
    /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.mDNSResponder.plist

    to reactivate:

    sudo launchctl load -w
    /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.mDNSResponder.plist

    Is it alright to try this out? What does the dnsResponder do? Is it needed?

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  23. Support Staff 23 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 11 Nov, 2015 09:56 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    mDNSResponder handles certain features of Bonjour, name resolution and file sharing. It is unlikely to be the cause of your sleeping issues or the specific problem you're having with TenFourFox, and disabling it may cause unpredictable issues with communicating with other computers on your local network. I would leave it alone.

  24. 24 Posted by John Boyd on 12 Nov, 2015 01:42 AM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Thank you, Cameron . . .

    You're quite right. The crash when opening and clicking into a second page
    like the "Reply" compose window still occurs with dnsResponder turned off.

    Did I mention that I found it to happen even when clicking into a "Post
    reply" window in a forum?

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  25. Support Staff 25 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 22 Jan, 2016 02:48 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    John, another user reported an issue similar to yours we can't reproduce either (not the back button issue, but the Amazon crash you'll see listed). While I can't help him either currently, perhaps there is something about your systems you have in common.

    http://tenfourfox.tenderapp.com/discussions/problems/7791-browsers-...

  26. 26 Posted by Winston on 22 Jan, 2016 03:21 PM

    Winston's Avatar

    John -

    I'm the "another user" Cameron reports. He suggests we compare system specs. Here are mine:

    PowerBook G4
    1.5 GHz processor
    1.25 GB memory
    Mac OS 10.4.11
    240 GB SSD with 59 GB free

    The only slightly odd thing I'm running is an Edimax USB "n" WiFi "card" with a Wireless Network Utility driving it, as the PowerBook only has "g" WiFi and poor antennas. But my use of that device predates the crashing problem.

    I do have some old HP printer software that runs HP Communications in the background, and also an old copy of Timbuktu that I've not gotten around to uninstalling, but these have never caused problems before. The crashing is with the more recent couple of versions of TenFourFox.

    I can reliably crash TFF by clicking into a Comment box on a review on Amazon, but, as with your situation, it happens often elsewhere - from text boxes on surveys to replying to a Cisco Registered Envelope Service email.

    I've tried resetting TenFourFox, but the crashes still happens after a reset to defaults, with no add-ons installed or other settings adjusted.

    Good luck.

    - Winston

  27. 27 Posted by John Boyd on 23 Jan, 2016 02:09 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Halloo Winston and Cameron . . .

    Had in mind pursing this further with Cameron. Interesting to find another
    with the same issue.

    At my home there are two computers with the same fault.

    Mine is "Desktop" PowerPC G4
    CPU speed: 800 MHz
    Memory: 512 MB
    running Mac OS 104.11
    Capacity: 37.14 GB with 5.05 GB free.

    Marjorie's is "round base" PowerPC G4 iMac
    CPU speed 800 MHz
    Memory: 768 MB
    running Mac OS 10.4.11
    Capacity: 74.5 GB with 43.7 GB free

    Same issue with TenFourFox on both that when replying to an email the
    reply title can be filled in but one click in the compose area crashes the
    browser. Wait a bit and TFF will "restore" and both windows open for the
    original email and for the compose reply. Now clicking in the area for the
    message highlights and proceeds normally.

    Happens when clicking into the first page for a "survey" or a reply in a
    forum.
    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  28. Support Staff 28 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 23 Jan, 2016 06:48 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    It looks like you're both using Tiger and you're both on the 7450 version. I don't think the CPU model or OS is at fault here, since I'm typing this reply to the thread on a 10.4.11 1GHz iMac G4 with 1.25GB of RAM, and while John's systems could definitely do with more memory, it still happens on Winston's, so RAM is probably not a factor either. The fact this occurs on both of John's systems may simply be a reflection of how John set them up.

    So I'd start looking at software commonalities. Do you have any common sets of devices connected? Since this appears to be more of an issue for input fields, how about specifically input devices such as keyboards and mice? Did you have to install any special drivers for them? What is your keyboard locale set to? Are you using any accessibility features?

    Other things to compare: do you have haxies or other system extensions installed? What other apps do you have running at the same time? Does Software Update show any additional Tiger updates to be installed, just to insure you're at the same version of the operating system and associated files? (This iMac shows no new updates to be installed.)

    If you can find a commonality between the systems that I can replicate, I'll make as reasonable an attempt as I can to fix the incompatibility or at least wallpaper it, but I need a test case I can make happen on my development machines.

  29. 29 Posted by John Boyd on 23 Jan, 2016 08:07 PM

    John Boyd's Avatar

    Thank you, Cameron . . .

    Connected devices are only a DVD writer, LaCie d2 DVD+RW, and a router,
    Netgear, w ethernet. Mouse is an Apple MB112LL/B and keyboard is an Apple
    product. No special drivers. Keyboard locale? seems no setting by that
    name. No accessibility feature needed. Buttons on each side of the mouse
    can be set to options. Mine was on "Exposé - all Windows" whatever that is
    (!!) and I changed it to "Spotlight".

    I checked Extensions, but it's a puzzle with 171 pieces. I've installed
    nothing related to browser operation, Apps running at the time is only
    "Dashboard" (part of Sys 10 install).

    Software update turned up nothing.

    I'll be glad to get more specific in any way you suggest. Only can thank
    you for trying, eh? Winston.

    --
    Best to you, John . . .
    [email blocked]

  30. Support Staff 30 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 23 Jan, 2016 08:13 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    Keyboard locale refers to the international setting for your keyboard. For example, mine is usually U.S., but is sometimes U.S. Extended, and occasionally Kotoeri when I need to type 日本語。

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