Latest TenFourFox ~ rendering issues...

Kevin Shaffer's Avatar

Kevin Shaffer

25 Jan, 2017 11:04 AM


Installed the latest update and have been troubleshooting it instead of sleeping.

The issue I've found is in rendering all Apple Support Communities pages, at the
bottom and elsewhere (stopped looking for more errors as I tried to restore
functions that also messed up; add on failed to give me no-tabs in single view,
and the search page kept arriving though I had never sought it... and so on.)

Back to ASC discussions; as I have screenshots of the first issues I noticed
that led me to look into reporting this problem in page rendering that did not
occur in previous TenFourFox. The letter "A" appears instead of functions in
the bottom of their pages. An letter "A" in the black title bar, by each function.

Hadn't tried other pages or other sites. I'm hoping to go back to earlier 10fourFox.
But used the 'refresh' button so had to mess with settings again, as they were
not restored. So that's another bug. I don't have time for this, nearly 2AM here.

Page images attached from:

Since I didn't make a backup of the bookmarks recently I was mortified, awaiting
the refresh or reset of the browser; the rendering effects are still in evidence so
that was not successful (nor was I certain of anything good to come from it.)

And some features were missing (defaults, such as 'display in full-screen; that
also lets you get out of full-screen -- not in browser toolbar) after update.

I'm sorry to have updated this; but the prompt appeared to do so & I did.

Thank you for your time & consideration in this matter.

Kevin Shaffer
{previous questions posed here ~ may have been under an alias}

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 25 Jan, 2017 02:24 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    (W/r/t your other request, I can only add participants, not remove them. I have added your in.a.small... address. Feel free to remove this one when you are signed into that account.)

    The [A] problem is a bad font which Apple appears to be coincidentally using now. Reverting won't help; this has to be blocked in the browser. I'll add it to the block list for 45.8. That is now github issue 347 on the worklist:

    I'm not able exactly to understand what you are referring to with your bookmarks or the full screen question. Please be more detailed.

  2. 2 Posted by in a small town... on 26 Jan, 2017 07:42 PM

    in a small town...'s Avatar

    As suspected, a recent implementation of Apple Fonts appears to
    be the bad player behind how the Apple sites flaky look and all
    those missing Text items with the latest TenFourFox 45.7.0 build.
    At least with my G4 Mini 1.5GHz running Leopard 10.5.8.

    About the only page at Apple which does not fail to render, is developer.
    Wonder why that one works? Even the tiny print with links at bottom, OK.

    Said to be a font called 'SF Pro Display' with support pages and documents
    using 'SF Pro Text & SF Pro Icons'... San Francisco (2014 typeface) wikipedia

    Hopefully implementation of an update 45.8.x isn't too far off. Other browser
    versions don't render this font so unreadably terrible as boxed Latin A's.

    Thank you!
    in a small town.

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 27 Jan, 2017 01:49 AM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    The problem isn't the browser, it's a bug in Apple Type Services (i.e., the OS). Every other version of TenFourFox will render it the same way because it's actually ATSUI doing the font management. The fix is to tell ATSUI not to try and to fall back on a different font, which is what Safari 5 and Leopard Webkit do automatically, but we need a manual blacklist to maintain 10.4 compatibility.

  4. 4 Posted by in a small town... on 30 Jan, 2017 01:31 AM

    in a small town...'s Avatar

    About the time this bug appeared, Apple introduced the SF Pro and other fonts
    on their site pages. Some pages render correctly anyway, so those
    who still do must not have been upgraded (or messed up) yet. 'Contact US at' still works, and presents correct readable text.

    • switches web font from Myriad to San Francisco
    "minor change to its website on Tuesday integrated its in-house developed San Francisco typeface"

    Certain pages first load visible fonts instead of the place-holder 'boxed Latin A'
    while others directly go to those, without showing any expected text/fonts. This
    in SeaMonkeyPPC and TenFourFox. As time rolls on, one could expect fewer of
    those pages that do load to fail. Unless Apple implements a fix.

    The first loading english text actual fonts that are readable, look essentially the
    same in TenFourFox/SeaMonkey as those presented in stable form in Safari 5.0.6
    but instead of staying as readable font in TenFourFox, those get swapped out with
    the black icon A. Slow internet connections allow correct text to be seen, first.

    Helping Apple product users on their corporate discussions ASC site, when the
    bookmarked content is used as reference (and double-checked to authenticate
    content still exists and is related to previous bookmark) is almost impossible as
    these references cannot be copy-pasted from Apple Support documents and
    be assured they are even fully working references, now. Following example of SMC
    reset page cannot possibly be of help if one had to copy paste a section; or if on
    faith alone, thought the official site had not changed.

    Thank you again...!
    in a small town.

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by Chris (chtrusch... on 30 Jan, 2017 03:22 PM

    Chris (chtrusch)'s Avatar

    Apple won't fix it. As Cameron said, this will be fixed in the next version of TenFourFox. Until then you can temporarily set
    gfx.downloadable_fonts.enabled = false
    in about:config to be able to read help pages.

  6. 6 Posted by in a small town on 30 Jan, 2017 10:04 PM

    in a small town's Avatar

    Thank you...!

    This change (double-click) in about:config TenFourFox set the item
    to 'false' from previoius 'true' and most pages render in
    an adequate way; subtle icons in their pages go missing. But this
    is satisfactory until such time as later TenFourFox offers correction.

    At least now when I offer suggestions to others using Apple Support
    articles, their text can be copied/pasted &/or screenshots are legible.

    Take care!
    in a small town...

  7. 7 Posted by MikeF on 05 Mar, 2017 05:16 PM

    MikeF's Avatar

    TFF 45.8.0 is still affected by this font problem.
    While Apple's pages show ok now, even with standard settings, there are still other bad ones.
    I tried this link from a discussion on Ric Ford's MacInTouch:
    Just like on TFF 45.7 this one can only be read using "gfx.downloadable_fonts.enabled = false".

    regards, Mike

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by Chris (chtrusch... on 05 Mar, 2017 07:04 PM

    Chris (chtrusch)'s Avatar

    Mike, if you know more sites that are affected, please list them here also. The fundamental problem, as you commented correctly, still exists and can, as far as I understand, not be solved easily (or at all). So, all that can be done for now is to add the affected sites or fonts to a blacklist that will be updated in the next version of TenFourFox following the report.

    BTW if you just need to read the text and don't care for formatting, you can simply click View>Page Style>No Style on such sites.

  9. 9 Posted by MikeF on 05 Mar, 2017 07:27 PM

    MikeF's Avatar

    Chris, there are currently no other problematic sites that I know of. If I'll come across any, I'll report for the list.

  10. 10 Posted by Michael Felsman... on 05 Mar, 2017 08:42 PM

    Michael Felsmann's Avatar

    Chris, I haven't seen an other "nasties" yet.
    This mail is mainly to show that my email adress is working.

    Am 05.03.2017 um 20:04 schrieb Chris (chtrusch):

    > From: Chris (chtrusch) (Support staff)
    > Mike, if you know more sites that are affected, please list them
    > here also. The fundamental problem, as you commented correctly,
    > still exists and can, as far as I understand, not be solved easily
    > (or at all). So, all that can be done for now is to add the sites or
    > fonts to a blacklist that will be updated in the next version of
    > TenFourFox following the report.
    > BTW if you just need to read the text and don't care for formatting,
    > you can simply click View>Page Style>No Style on such sites.

  11. 11 Posted by in a small town... on 05 Mar, 2017 08:54 PM

    in a small town...'s Avatar

    The other sites affected appear to some aspects of those
    using ARCPublishing software, where odd icons replace
    arrows that one clicks on to activate features, etc.

    washington post uses this, does, among others.

    Seems to me one may investigate if the secondary effects
    of the small icon failure to render can be offset by another
    change in the default similar to gfx.downloadable_fonts.
    enabled = false, where other gfx.downloadables are present
    as noted in about:config browser settings.

    I've not updated TenFourFox as of yet; may do so, to take
    advantage of any other fixes as they present themselves.

    Thank you for the additional information per this issue; most
    of the problems are due to Apple's changed default fonts.
    Few or no ASC apple discussions users have mentioned this
    however if their PPC Mac had major issues in rendering Apple
    Sites to the degree I've noticed, they'd be unable to read/post.

    Thanks again for your efforts to keep these older product systems
    able to access an increasingly changed (not necessarily better) web.

    Tried to post this twice, using TenFourFox/Box and gmail. Not sure
    if the incoming update to this thread bumped my addition. If by
    chance there may become two similar posts from me, feel free to
    remove the older or less complete one. I'd tried adding attachments.

    Best regards!
    in a small town...

  12. Support Staff 12 Posted by Cameron Kaiser on 05 Mar, 2017 10:25 PM

    Cameron Kaiser's Avatar

    I'll add these to the list for 45.9.

    Eventually we'll need a better way of blacklisting these, maybe with a live listing instead of having to precompile them into the browser.

  13. 13 Posted by in a small town on 05 Aug, 2017 08:50 PM

    in a small town's Avatar

    TenFourFox/Box1.0.1(?) latest version does not seem to carry over
    about:config settings for dealing with Apple site's font issue; so there
    are odd renderings if or when Apple content is visited from say, FoxBox
    for Gmail. An attached image is from visiting an Apple support page from
    an email.

    Also is there a separate browser configuration setting (for TenFourFox, main)
    that can help the smaller font failure to load properly, as the [A] failure to
    render affects the small text at end of some Apple pages; and icons that show
    function, disclosure triange or other mechanism that don't show correctly.

    And, I've noticed a lot of CPU usage with TenFourFox, up to 100% in Activity
    Monitor (in 10.5.8) w/ single processor 1.5GHz G4 Mac Mini. Seems excessive.

    Thank you!
    in a small town
    Kenai Mts Alaska.

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