tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:/discussions/problems/2-italic-displayTenFourFox: Discussion 2012-11-29T14:31:10Ztag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-07-18T09:19:47Z2012-07-18T09:19:47ZItalic display<div><p>Alright, let's see what tconsolo and the other bug reporters say
about this. Since I don't see the problem on their reported
websites, there might be other font families that behave similarly.
I'll keep the Myriad variants in Fonts Disabled for testing
purposes.</p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-08-21T20:37:00Z2012-08-21T20:37:38ZItalic display<div><p>I have the same problem sorta with Craigslist</p></div>Felixtag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-04T15:23:20Z2012-09-04T15:23:20ZItalic display<div><p>Felix, I don't see the bug on Craigslist, but this probbaly just
means that I don't have any fonts installed that cause it. I
checked with the one problematic font I know of and have available
(Myriad), but that's not it. If you find the time to test which
font causes it on your system, you'd help us a lot.</p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-19T04:28:02Z2012-09-19T04:28:02ZItalic display<div><p>Hello. The Web site appleinsider.com just redesigned, and now it
doesn't<br>
display properly. Attached is a comparison between TFF 10.0.6 and
plain<br>
FF 3.6.28. Note that there is no italic involved here. My
default<br>
san-serif font is Arial, for the record.</p></div>tconsolotag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-19T04:40:57Z2012-09-19T04:40:57ZItalic display<div><p>The page appears normally here. It does appear that for some
people Helvetica is offending font, and for others Arial, but I
can't find anything in common between those systems. However, there
is a suggestion on <a href=
"https://tenfourfox.tenderapp.com/discussions/problems/172-maybe-a-font-cache-problem">
https://tenfourfox.tenderapp.com/discussions/problems/172-maybe-a-f...</a>
about getting a little more information.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-19T07:47:37Z2012-09-19T07:47:37ZItalic display<div><p>I can't reproduce this one, either.</p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-20T02:07:23Z2012-09-20T02:07:23ZItalic display<div><p>Since TenFourFox 17 is around the corner (the next major update)
and I can't figure out what's going on, I'm working on a
mitigation. While I still can't reproduce this on any of the four
systems I test TenFourFox on (G5, iMac G4, iBook G4, Sawtooth G4,
10.4.11) or on my 10.6.8 Intel mini, there appears to be enough
people with fonts affected by this to make wallpapering the problem
worthwhile even if the underlying issue (which I can't reproduce)
can't be repaired.</p>
<p>Different people are having different issues. tconsolo seems to
have it with Arial; another poster is having it with Helvetica, and
at least one person mentioned Times; and Chris mentioned Myriad
Pro.</p>
<p>For 17, I'm writing code that will allow you to turn off Arial,
Helvetica or both to force the system to pick a fall-back font.
This code does work on my system, though the font it selects might
be unexpected and I can't really control for that. If I kill both,
it selects Times; it tends to pick the other if you just kill one.
The font selection only affects TenFourFox.</p>
<p>I'm trying to limit this to specific fonts to avoid writing a
whole bunch of exceptions in the code or introducing new bugs, so
fonts that are rarely reported as problematic should simply be
disabled from the system in the usual way.</p>
<p>Fonts that users can demonstrate are bad should be reported in
this thread ASAP. I hope to have an Aurora build of 17 out in a
week or so that you can play with and see if this helps the issue,
even if the font choice is wrong.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-21T01:20:13Z2012-09-21T01:20:14ZItalic display<div><p>About half the pages I try to load with TenFourFox come across
as some sort of Chinese characters. That, or it displays the little
boxes described elsewhere in this thread. It's hard for me to nail
down the font names or variations. This is even happening when I
disable "TenFourFox > Preferences > Content > Advanced
> Allow pages to choose their own fonts.... " though admittedly
that reduces the problem.</p></div>orisiniotag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-21T01:22:08Z2012-09-21T01:22:08ZItalic display<div><p>For this intervention to be at all effective, I need specific
font names. You can test fonts in that same dropdown by setting
them to a font you believe is affected, and seeing if the problem
occurs, or by disabling the suspect font in Font Book.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-21T21:31:40Z2012-09-21T21:31:40ZItalic display<div><p>Thanks, Cameron. I just specified Times New Roman instead of
Times as my browser's serif font, and it's cleared up several
display issues. But if I let web pages specify their own fonts,
there's no end of trouble -- and I can't always tell what fonts
they're trying to display. Is there no fall-through safety net when
TenFourFox can't find a specified glyph in a particular font?</p>
<p>Oh, and this style spec seems to fail reliably, particularly in
bold:<br>
font-family: Frutiger, "Frutiger Linotype", Univers, Calibri, "Gill
Sans", "Gill Sans MT", "Myriad Pro", Myriad, Tahoma, Geneva,
"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans serif;</p></div>orisinioribaldi-1tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-22T12:43:40Z2012-09-22T12:43:40ZItalic display<div><p>There is some fallback support but font selection is imperfect
even in the real Firefox. I'm unlikely to alter that code
significantly until after 10.5 support is completely purged from
the Firefox code base, which probably won't happen until at least
18, due to the changes required.</p>
<p>Adding Times to the list of fonts that can be blacklisted seems
reasonable. However, the style spec in your report above isn't
specific at all. The CSS style font-family allows the browser to
select <em>any</em> of the fonts in the list if your system has it,
listed in descending priority, so any one, set or all of those
could be offenders.</p>
<p>Chris has specifically mentioned Myriad Pro as a font that was
affected for him. It's not workable to add an exception for every
possible font to about:config. For these less common fonts, you
should just disable them in Font Book and reenable when
appropriate. I'm limiting the blacklist to common fonts that are
not practical to disable for most users.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-24T04:55:46Z2012-09-24T04:55:46ZItalic display<div><p>A friendly ping to people watching this thread: currently the
font blocklist will let you block Arial, Helvetica and/or Times (or
any combination) and force the browser to use another font. I am
still soliciting other suggestions. Fonts suggested should be
commonly reported as issues and commonly used enough that disabling
them in Font Book is an unacceptable workaround. A build of
17-Aurora with this feature will be available hopefully next week
for people to try.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-27T02:44:45Z2012-09-27T02:44:45ZItalic display<div><p>For those affected by this issue, TenFourFox 17.0a2 is
available. Please read this blog post: <a href=
"http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2012/09/170a2-available.html">http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2012/09/170a2-available.html</a>
and heed the warnings within.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-27T22:21:29Z2012-09-27T22:21:37ZItalic display<div><p>I only have one affected font (Bitstream Charter), which is
enough for me to come up with the following theory but not enough
for me to really be certain of it...</p>
<p>Check the font's type in Font Book. If it's "TrueType" or
"OpenType PostScript" then it will work fine. If it is "PostScript
Type1" then it won't work. (This is on a Mac OS X 10.5.8 system. I
haven't had a chance to try 10.4.11 but I don't expect it to make a
difference.) These days, I wouldn't expect the typical Mac OS X
system to have even one PS Type1 font, which would explain why this
problem usually doesn't happen.</p>
<p>If my theory is true, then this is a bug of some kind and
doesn't involve corrupt fonts, but the workaround would be to
disable all PostScript Type1 fonts (or make them all user fonts so
that you can have a separate TFF user that does not have them).
(Also, if clearing the font cache resolves the problem temporarily,
make sure to check for and avoid having duplicate fonts.)</p></div>Barry K. Nathantag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-27T23:02:30Z2012-09-27T23:02:30ZItalic display<div><p>Interesting theory. Chris, what does Myriad Pro come up with on
your system?</p>
<p>I did some testing with this against the Type 1 fonts installed
on my system. They indeed don't render, but they don't "box out."
Still, it should be easy enough to filter them if that is indeed
the problem.</p>
<p>It would also be handy for people to Validate the affected fonts
in Font Book to make sure they are not garbled otherwise.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-28T07:35:10Z2012-09-28T07:42:20ZItalic display<div><p>As I wrote, in my case it's a combination that creates the
problem (see comments 60 & 61). I don't know enough about
fonts, but I'll try to explain anyway:</p>
<p>"Myriad" (not "Myriad Pro") is a Font Suitcase; the variants are
indeed Postscript Type 1. If only the Font Suitcase file
<em>or</em> the variants files are in the Fonts folder, the font
doesn't show up in Font Book at all, no applications see it, and
the test website displays okay in TFF. (Maybe the Font Suitcase
file is no actual font but is needed to make the Postscript
variants work? "Myriad Roman" is the basic variant.)</p>
<p>If I put everything back into the Fonts folder, the font shows
up as a Family in Font Book and validates with no problems, but the
test website is illegible.</p>
<p>I have lots of Postscript fonts installed. The test website
specifically asks for Myriad.</p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-28T07:37:55Z2012-09-28T07:45:02ZItalic display<div><p>add.: Cameron, Myriad on my test website doesn't box out anymore
in TFF 14+; there's no text hint at all. It only boxes out in TFF
10.</p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-28T08:15:48Z2012-09-28T08:17:54ZItalic display<div><p>Created PostScript html test file with a variety of fonts. I
think Barry is right. None of them renders correctly. Some seem to
fallback, some don't render at all. Safari doesn't get all of them,
either.</p>
<p>TFF 17:<br>
<a href=
"http://s8.postimage.org/58n4hitkl/tff17.png">http://s8.postimage.org/58n4hitkl/tff17.png</a></p>
<p>TFF 10:<br>
<a href=
"http://s11.postimage.org/ntfweschf/tff10.png">http://s11.postimage.org/ntfweschf/tff10.png</a></p>
<p>Safari:<br>
<a href=
"http://s10.postimage.org/fudqxsnq1/safari.png">http://s10.postimage.org/fudqxsnq1/safari.png</a></p>
<p>SeaMonkey 1.1:<br>
<a href=
"http://s16.postimage.org/vydil8phx/sm1.png">http://s16.postimage.org/vydil8phx/sm1.png</a></p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-09-28T22:45:27Z2012-09-28T22:45:27ZItalic display<div><p>Can some of our other users report in on their affected
fonts?</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-08T21:13:11Z2012-10-08T21:13:12ZItalic display<div><p>Now that I've downloaded and installed the update I can't even
enter text into text fields they are blank</p></div>Felixtag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-08T21:17:18Z2012-10-08T21:17:18ZItalic display<div><p>Felix, you didn't say if you changed any of the settings, or
what your affected fonts are, or if any of them are Type 1. We're
not going to get this fixed without more information from the
affected parties, and I'm not getting any from the people for whom
this was allegedly a major problem. Help us out here with
information I can use to make a fix.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-08T21:19:38Z2012-10-08T21:19:38ZItalic display<div><p>I'm not sure what you mean</p>
<p>Sent from my iPhone</p></div>Felix Torrestag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-14T01:05:03Z2012-10-14T01:05:03ZItalic display<div><p>17.0 beta is now released with a more complete take on this
based on Barry's theory and Chris' testing. I would really
appreciate those affected by this giving it a try. The settings I
mentioned in the earlier comment are still available if that is
insufficient.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-14T07:47:00Z2012-10-14T07:48:02ZItalic display<div><p>postscript-test.html from comment 80 renders with all fonts
readable (fallback) in TFF 17b1 on my system. Also the test website
<a href=
"http://dangerpoisonousmonkeys.com">http://dangerpoisonousmonkeys.com</a>
is now usable. Excellent.<br>
<a href=
"http://s8.postimage.org/stevdraj9/Picture_2.png">http://s8.postimage.org/stevdraj9/Picture_2.png</a></p></div>Chris (chtrusch)tag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-15T17:10:03Z2012-10-15T17:10:06ZItalic display<div><p>Interestingly this thread update and the release of the beta of
v17 coincided with my first use of my G5 in about 6 months. I've
been out of State on a job assignment and working exclusively on my
MacBook Pro. But last week I arrived home and got the G5 powered up
and saw the updates to this thread.</p>
<p>I'm happy to report that, thus far, the beta version of TFF 17
has cured ALL the issues I previously posted in this thread. No
more off characters or weird boxes. I have changed absolutely
nothing else on this system. As I said, it has been sitting unused
almost the entire time since my last post.</p>
<p>So whatever you folks did, major kudos to you. Thanks for your
perseverance.</p></div>Miketag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-16T00:39:32Z2012-10-16T00:39:32ZItalic display<div><p>Great! That's very encouraging, and says that the theory and fix
are probably both on the right track. Other reports still
solicited.</p></div>Cameron Kaisertag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-10-16T20:49:01Z2012-10-17T13:53:48ZItalic display<div><p>I am really satisfied with this posting that you have given us.
This is really a stupendous work done by you. Thank you and looking
for more posts</p></div>Matthew R Giesetag:tenfourfox.tenderapp.com,2012-01-07:Comment/129299462012-11-28T21:57:38Z2012-11-28T21:57:38ZItalic display<div><p>I'm assuming this general issue has been fixed by the font
blacklist code in 17. If this is not the case, please reply to this
post and the ticket will reopen.</p></div>Cameron Kaiser